Episode 16: The Family that Debates (Hell) Together, with Adam and Melanie Zens

YouTube apologists Adam Zens, and his 15-year old daughter Melanie, join Rethinking Hell contributor Chris Date to discuss raising critical thinkers, and how to respectfully disagree with one’s family over the nature of hell.

The Zenses Online

Interviews Podcast
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  • Roy

    Great interview! Nice to hear about home-schooling and seeing your kids challenge your belief system. Could you please make the convo on whether annihilationism/traditional view fits better with systematic theology public?

    Just wanted to add a link mentioned in the show:
    “Punishment” and the Polysemy of Deverbal Nouns

    Chris – could you please post the other links to the article on “annihilated” –> “resurrection” –> “annhilated again”?

    Also, is there a link to the debate between Adam & Melanie?

    • Actually, Roy, I had the same thought of posting that link for our debate. We have several links but I will try to ferret them out.

    • Chris Date

      Sorry guys, forgot about those links. Will add them.

    • Chris Date

      OK I’ve updated the above show notes with the links. Just to be clear, annihilationists would not say the wicked are “annihilated” at the first death, so it’s not annihilated –> resurrected –> annihilated, it’s temporarily destroyed –> resurrected –> permanently destroyed.

      • Roy

        Think that’s the language Adam used, so was quoting him, but thanks for the clarification.

    • Where can I find the conversation in which view fits better with systematic theology?

      • Chris Date

        Hey Mario! I don’t think there is such a conversation out there, at least not that I was referring to. It’s a conversation that needs to happen, though.

  • Roy

    Actually, I was trying to be helpful – but maybe that wasn’t the link you had in mind Chris.

  • The following are two links to our opening statements on the Eternal Hellfire/Annihilationism debate. I believe that you should be able to navigate around to discover the responses/rebuttals and closing statements from these:



  • Chris Date

    Roy/Adam, I’ve updated the show notes with those links. Can you confirm?

    • Roy

      Cheers Chris. The other ones that may be worth also including is the ones on complementarianism (although not directly related, they were referred to) – particularly as “Chris Date” in Google turns up a database guru.

  • Mike Owens

    This was another great podcast. What an amazing young lady. Her YOUTUBE on annihilationism is a must see for conditionalists who want to help young people see this issue more clearly. Thanks Chris, Alan and Melanie

  • Adam

    Melanie and I (thanks to my severe procrastination) now have about 2/3 of our gender egalitarianism debate up on YT. However, we seek more questions, particularly challenging to the complementarian view (more from an egalitarian perspective).

    Here they are (in order, I hope):





    Thanks in advance!–AZ

Featured audio: Dr. Al Mohler & Chris Date debate
"Should Christians rethink Hell?" on Unbelievable?